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	<title>Comments on: On Science, Indigo, Crystals, Rainbows, and Virtue</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?feed=rss2&#038;p=13" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dad Of Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13&cpage=1#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Dad Of Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Autism Diva mentioned the Angelic tuning forks, and Susan (above) has a great &lt;a HREF="http://autisticconjectureoftheday.blogspot.com/2006/02/bwahahahahahahaha.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;piece&lt;/A&gt; on her &lt;a HREF="http://autisticconjectureoftheday.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;blog&lt;/A&gt; about these.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Autism Diva mentioned the Angelic tuning forks, and Susan (above) has a great <a HREF="http://autisticconjectureoftheday.blogspot.com/2006/02/bwahahahahahahaha.html" rel="nofollow">piece</a> on her <a HREF="http://autisticconjectureoftheday.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">blog</a> about these.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13&cpage=1#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2006 04:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Ah...thank you for a  charming and lengthy rant on one of the five most ludicrous autism theories out there (the others being merpeople ancestry, cure by the tuning forks of Biblical event sound frequencies (?!), the french fry cause of autism, and the Mexican cow cure).  

Yes, Susan's book is great - by virtue of the fact that it avoids all the hype that all the other autism epidemic mercenaries/authors employ.  Its simply a book about a normal family dealing   with a less than normal situation.  No locking the kid in the bathroom.  No sticking IV needles in his arm. No thumping his head with spiritually tuned forks.   Just raising and loving him to the best of their ability.  What a concept!

-The other Susan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah&#8230;thank you for a  charming and lengthy rant on one of the five most ludicrous autism theories out there (the others being merpeople ancestry, cure by the tuning forks of Biblical event sound frequencies (?!), the french fry cause of autism, and the Mexican cow cure).  </p>
<p>Yes, Susan&#8217;s book is great - by virtue of the fact that it avoids all the hype that all the other autism epidemic mercenaries/authors employ.  Its simply a book about a normal family dealing   with a less than normal situation.  No locking the kid in the bathroom.  No sticking IV needles in his arm. No thumping his head with spiritually tuned forks.   Just raising and loving him to the best of their ability.  What a concept!</p>
<p>-The other Susan</p>
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		<title>By: Dad Of Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13&cpage=1#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>Dad Of Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13#comment-45</guid>
		<description>Prometheus,

Thank you for the "crystal-ball" clarity, that there is &lt;B&gt;absolutely nothing&lt;/B&gt; 'scientific' about this - thus it is going into my files as utter pseudo-science. 

As for the often claimed assertions of 'spirituality', I just don't see it (unless getting rich by suckering vulnerable parents (looking for answers or understanding in some of the only ways they currently know how), is a &lt;B&gt;religious&lt;/B&gt; experience).

Re: My edit - Although I personally agree with you about the need for parental thinking, prior to entertaining such nonsensical ideas, I'm working on that as best I can. Although I personally did not find your analysis offensive in any way, I was concerned about any potential emotional parent in our support group (who I may have not yet met). Please understand that one of my goals is to encourage more critical thinking among this group - they collectively have impact in our community, and are open to the idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prometheus,</p>
<p>Thank you for the &#8220;crystal-ball&#8221; clarity, that there is <b>absolutely nothing</b> &#8217;scientific&#8217; about this - thus it is going into my files as utter pseudo-science. </p>
<p>As for the often claimed assertions of &#8217;spirituality&#8217;, I just don&#8217;t see it (unless getting rich by suckering vulnerable parents (looking for answers or understanding in some of the only ways they currently know how), is a <b>religious</b> experience).</p>
<p>Re: My edit - Although I personally agree with you about the need for parental thinking, prior to entertaining such nonsensical ideas, I&#8217;m working on that as best I can. Although I personally did not find your analysis offensive in any way, I was concerned about any potential emotional parent in our support group (who I may have not yet met). Please understand that one of my goals is to encourage more critical thinking among this group - they collectively have impact in our community, and are open to the idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Prometheus</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13&cpage=1#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Prometheus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2006 16:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13#comment-44</guid>
		<description>Well, I spent about half an hour in serious consideration of how someone could test the "Indigo Children" hypothesis and have come up with very little.

The problem is that the "hypothesis" doesn't make many testable predictions - it is just a jumble of &lt;i&gt;a priori&lt;/i&gt; assertions that have no data to back them up and are largely untestable.

Not that the "Crystal Children" people are going to care two figs for the fact that their "hypothesis" is untestable - they already &lt;i&gt;know&lt;/i&gt; that they're right. Data would just be an pointless confirmation of what they &lt;i&gt;know&lt;/i&gt; to be true.

About the only part of this baloney that could be tested is if it works. And it is &lt;i&gt;always&lt;/i&gt; perilous to test a "treatment" that has no conceivable mechanism of action, because you have &lt;i&gt;no idea&lt;/i&gt; what might interfere with its action. The problem is that if the effect seems hit-and-miss (perhaps because it is due to random events unrelated to the treatment), then &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; sort of baloney excuse can be used to explain that away (&lt;i&gt;e.g.&lt;/i&gt; "negative thoughts"). After all, since you have &lt;i&gt;no idea&lt;/i&gt; how it works, you also have no idea what might cause it to &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; work.

Prometheus

[Partial Comment - Dad Of Cameron]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I spent about half an hour in serious consideration of how someone could test the &#8220;Indigo Children&#8221; hypothesis and have come up with very little.</p>
<p>The problem is that the &#8220;hypothesis&#8221; doesn&#8217;t make many testable predictions - it is just a jumble of <i>a priori</i> assertions that have no data to back them up and are largely untestable.</p>
<p>Not that the &#8220;Crystal Children&#8221; people are going to care two figs for the fact that their &#8220;hypothesis&#8221; is untestable - they already <i>know</i> that they&#8217;re right. Data would just be an pointless confirmation of what they <i>know</i> to be true.</p>
<p>About the only part of this baloney that could be tested is if it works. And it is <i>always</i> perilous to test a &#8220;treatment&#8221; that has no conceivable mechanism of action, because you have <i>no idea</i> what might interfere with its action. The problem is that if the effect seems hit-and-miss (perhaps because it is due to random events unrelated to the treatment), then <i>any</i> sort of baloney excuse can be used to explain that away (<i>e.g.</i> &#8220;negative thoughts&#8221;). After all, since you have <i>no idea</i> how it works, you also have no idea what might cause it to <i>not</i> work.</p>
<p>Prometheus</p>
<p>[Partial Comment - Dad Of Cameron]</p>
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		<title>By: Dad Of Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13&cpage=1#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Dad Of Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 17:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13#comment-43</guid>
		<description>Modification:

"Outside of science, Jim Adams pursues autism advocacy efforts here in Phoenix, some of which appear to be valid and helpful."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Modification:</p>
<p>&#8220;Outside of science, Jim Adams pursues autism advocacy efforts here in Phoenix, some of which appear to be valid and helpful.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dad Of Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13&cpage=1#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>Dad Of Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 16:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13#comment-42</guid>
		<description>Autism Diva,

I appreciate you pointing readers to neurodiversity.com - besides being a fantastic website, neurodiversity as a concept is so important in and of itself. Kathleen's tenacity in communicating this importance (as evidenced in her blog posts about the MIND institute) is motivating.

KC'sMom,

Although I &lt;I&gt;personally&lt;/I&gt; agree with your view about the unbelievability of this crap being believed by many in general, I think the important take-home message (question) is:

Is it okay to lie, get rich doing it, and screw people in the process (even if they don't realize it or 'believe' they are being screwed or lied to)? 

A &lt;I&gt;personal&lt;/I&gt; note on Jim Adams - I certainly would &lt;B&gt;not&lt;/B&gt; defend his science, but would note that he did spend the time to &lt;B&gt;attempt&lt;/B&gt; to answer all my questions scientifically posed. Other researchers might have continued to ignore my questions. This absolutely doesn't justify anything he's doing scientifically, nor is it an attempt to do so, but I think it responsible to acknowledge his willingness to try to be scientific (and open to criticism of his version of the 'science').
Will he do anything about it? Who knows. Perhaps some of the local parents will ask him.

Outside of science, Jim Adams pursues what look like valid autism advocacy efforts here in Phoenix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Autism Diva,</p>
<p>I appreciate you pointing readers to neurodiversity.com - besides being a fantastic website, neurodiversity as a concept is so important in and of itself. Kathleen&#8217;s tenacity in communicating this importance (as evidenced in her blog posts about the MIND institute) is motivating.</p>
<p>KC&#8217;sMom,</p>
<p>Although I <i>personally</i> agree with your view about the unbelievability of this crap being believed by many in general, I think the important take-home message (question) is:</p>
<p>Is it okay to lie, get rich doing it, and screw people in the process (even if they don&#8217;t realize it or &#8216;believe&#8217; they are being screwed or lied to)? </p>
<p>A <i>personal</i> note on Jim Adams - I certainly would <b>not</b> defend his science, but would note that he did spend the time to <b>attempt</b> to answer all my questions scientifically posed. Other researchers might have continued to ignore my questions. This absolutely doesn&#8217;t justify anything he&#8217;s doing scientifically, nor is it an attempt to do so, but I think it responsible to acknowledge his willingness to try to be scientific (and open to criticism of his version of the &#8217;science&#8217;).<br />
Will he do anything about it? Who knows. Perhaps some of the local parents will ask him.</p>
<p>Outside of science, Jim Adams pursues what look like valid autism advocacy efforts here in Phoenix.</p>
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		<title>By: KCsMom</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13&cpage=1#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>KCsMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 14:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13#comment-41</guid>
		<description>OMG, now Indigo Children?

To me this is just another money sucking thing.

She's a what?

Spiritual doctor of psychology and a fourth-generation metaphysician who works with the angelic, elemental, and ascended-master realms in her writings and workshops."- O.K. that is the weirdest.

That is the biggest heap of crap of heard of in a long time.

Good on you Dad Of Cameron, I am so glad that you can blog about these bloodsuckers. I can't believe people actually believe crap like that. Unbelievable!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OMG, now Indigo Children?</p>
<p>To me this is just another money sucking thing.</p>
<p>She&#8217;s a what?</p>
<p>Spiritual doctor of psychology and a fourth-generation metaphysician who works with the angelic, elemental, and ascended-master realms in her writings and workshops.&#8221;- O.K. that is the weirdest.</p>
<p>That is the biggest heap of crap of heard of in a long time.</p>
<p>Good on you Dad Of Cameron, I am so glad that you can blog about these bloodsuckers. I can&#8217;t believe people actually believe crap like that. Unbelievable!</p>
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		<title>By: Autism Diva</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13&cpage=1#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Autism Diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 04:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13#comment-40</guid>
		<description>Hi Dad of Cameron,

This is a good review of the Indigo children business, and it is a business, as you show. 

On the neurodiversity.com website, Kathleen has links to a section of far out 'cures' for autism.  One of the best ones is "angelic tuning forks".   We could ask Jim Adams if he has done as study on them yet and if not, why not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dad of Cameron,</p>
<p>This is a good review of the Indigo children business, and it is a business, as you show. </p>
<p>On the neurodiversity.com website, Kathleen has links to a section of far out &#8216;cures&#8217; for autism.  One of the best ones is &#8220;angelic tuning forks&#8221;.   We could ask Jim Adams if he has done as study on them yet and if not, why not.</p>
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		<title>By: Dad Of Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13&cpage=1#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Dad Of Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 01:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13#comment-39</guid>
		<description>Susan, Thank you for stopping by - your comments are most appreciated. My lovely wife will certainly hope for the second potential work you mention, although the first sounds interesting as well. If you ever do take up crystals, potions, or incatations, please send me a note so I can update this post :-)

(I do still wonder what you think about Oprah promoting that nonsense, but it seems extremely smart not to comment on that - after all, we DO want to see your book on Oprah's club!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susan, Thank you for stopping by - your comments are most appreciated. My lovely wife will certainly hope for the second potential work you mention, although the first sounds interesting as well. If you ever do take up crystals, potions, or incatations, please send me a note so I can update this post <img src='http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
(I do still wonder what you think about Oprah promoting that nonsense, but it seems extremely smart not to comment on that - after all, we DO want to see your book on Oprah&#8217;s club!)</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Senator</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13&cpage=1#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Senator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=13#comment-38</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the plug!  Don't worry, you won't see any "non-reality based" crap from me.  The book I want to do will either be a fiction heavily based on my boys so that readers can maybe get inside the heads of three very different guys (one of whom has severe autism).  A lot of fun for me, trying to imagine how they think!  The other book I may do is a down-and-dirty strategy book, one that also discusses how the mom can take care of herself!  Imagine that!  

No crystals, potions, or incantations.  Just common sense, parental effort, and a healthy dose of acceptance of the imperfect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the plug!  Don&#8217;t worry, you won&#8217;t see any &#8220;non-reality based&#8221; crap from me.  The book I want to do will either be a fiction heavily based on my boys so that readers can maybe get inside the heads of three very different guys (one of whom has severe autism).  A lot of fun for me, trying to imagine how they think!  The other book I may do is a down-and-dirty strategy book, one that also discusses how the mom can take care of herself!  Imagine that!  </p>
<p>No crystals, potions, or incantations.  Just common sense, parental effort, and a healthy dose of acceptance of the imperfect.</p>
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