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	<title>Comments on: Don&#8217;t Say &#8220;Chelation&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43</link>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 16:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Robert P</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-424</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2006 11:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43#comment-424</guid>
		<description>I saw a recent presentation on sibs of autistic children, I &lt;a href="http://ourspectrum.com/story/2006/5/10/42454/1482" rel="nofollow"&gt;blogged on it here briefly, but I am going to say the same things in this post&lt;/a&gt;. They have been studying these kids since age 4 mos. At age 12 and age 24 months, a subset of these kids (13) moved into the "presumed" ASD category. The researchers tried to have the parents enroll them in OT, PT, ST, but NONE of them did. It was a Jewish study and during the intifada (sp?), so perhaps that is why, or perhaps they already felt comfortable having had one child. Point is, of the 13 only one went on to have full autism diagnosis, AND, the other twelve caught up to their NT peers. So, by age 4.5 they were "normal" in language, which was the measure where they had slower development.

I bring this up because if these children hadn't been in a study, but had gone into TEACCH, ABA, RID, chelation, GFCF, or prayer - the parents would have been left with the conviction that they got better because of the treatment.

Obviously, autism is different than developmental delay, but these kids were significantly language delayed, they weren't just a little behind. I think at 15 months they were around 9 months, but I could be a little wrong on that. In order for these treatments to be properly tested, a control group of ASD and a control group of NTs need to be included. Otherwise, smoke and mirrors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw a recent presentation on sibs of autistic children, I <a href="http://ourspectrum.com/story/2006/5/10/42454/1482" rel="nofollow">blogged on it here briefly, but I am going to say the same things in this post</a>. They have been studying these kids since age 4 mos. At age 12 and age 24 months, a subset of these kids (13) moved into the &#8220;presumed&#8221; ASD category. The researchers tried to have the parents enroll them in OT, PT, ST, but NONE of them did. It was a Jewish study and during the intifada (sp?), so perhaps that is why, or perhaps they already felt comfortable having had one child. Point is, of the 13 only one went on to have full autism diagnosis, AND, the other twelve caught up to their NT peers. So, by age 4.5 they were &#8220;normal&#8221; in language, which was the measure where they had slower development.</p>
<p>I bring this up because if these children hadn&#8217;t been in a study, but had gone into TEACCH, ABA, RID, chelation, GFCF, or prayer - the parents would have been left with the conviction that they got better because of the treatment.</p>
<p>Obviously, autism is different than developmental delay, but these kids were significantly language delayed, they weren&#8217;t just a little behind. I think at 15 months they were around 9 months, but I could be a little wrong on that. In order for these treatments to be properly tested, a control group of ASD and a control group of NTs need to be included. Otherwise, smoke and mirrors.</p>
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		<title>By: Dad Of Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-420</link>
		<dc:creator>Dad Of Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 14:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43#comment-420</guid>
		<description>Hi Probe, thanks for stopping by.

Maria, you can certainly e-mail me at comments at autismstreet dot org. I have seen most of the papers you cite which seem to suggest interestesting directions for future research but don't necessarily constitute anything near conclusive proof at this point. I'd be happy to chat with you by e-mail. Please understand that I have a hectic schedule and am not primarily interested in speculation, maybes, or seems tos, but willing to discuss them as time permits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Probe, thanks for stopping by.</p>
<p>Maria, you can certainly e-mail me at comments at autismstreet dot org. I have seen most of the papers you cite which seem to suggest interestesting directions for future research but don&#8217;t necessarily constitute anything near conclusive proof at this point. I&#8217;d be happy to chat with you by e-mail. Please understand that I have a hectic schedule and am not primarily interested in speculation, maybes, or seems tos, but willing to discuss them as time permits.</p>
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		<title>By: TheProbe</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-419</link>
		<dc:creator>TheProbe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 13:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43#comment-419</guid>
		<description>The correct answer to DoC's multiple choice analysis is A B and C. I had run a support group for parents of kids with AD/HD when my now 23 year old was 5-9. Just about everytime we had a newbie come in, they were in 'cure mode' and were not interested in 'quick fixes' (medication) or any of the other therapies that many of the members had thought were beneficial (special education certification (You are not going to LABEL my child), individual counseling and family counseling. They wanted advice on diets, supplements, etc. and would not consider the fact that there is no cure, and that the best one can do is to deal with the symptoms. 

The group addressed their concerns, and often they would begin to see that they were headed in the wrong direction. However, there were those who would not even consider that their child had a life long problem and that they had to prepare the child for that. Unfortunately, these people would either not return after a few meetings, or cause major confrontations within the group. One "pro-thimerosal causes autism and chelation is the answer" blogger reminds me of these people. 

I have met a few of them years later. Some came to realize that they were on the wrong path and their kids turned out alright. One, though, told me that her son became a major drug user and OD'd. Another one visits her son upstate on visiting day at a maximum security facility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The correct answer to DoC&#8217;s multiple choice analysis is A B and C. I had run a support group for parents of kids with AD/HD when my now 23 year old was 5-9. Just about everytime we had a newbie come in, they were in &#8216;cure mode&#8217; and were not interested in &#8216;quick fixes&#8217; (medication) or any of the other therapies that many of the members had thought were beneficial (special education certification (You are not going to LABEL my child), individual counseling and family counseling. They wanted advice on diets, supplements, etc. and would not consider the fact that there is no cure, and that the best one can do is to deal with the symptoms. </p>
<p>The group addressed their concerns, and often they would begin to see that they were headed in the wrong direction. However, there were those who would not even consider that their child had a life long problem and that they had to prepare the child for that. Unfortunately, these people would either not return after a few meetings, or cause major confrontations within the group. One &#8220;pro-thimerosal causes autism and chelation is the answer&#8221; blogger reminds me of these people. </p>
<p>I have met a few of them years later. Some came to realize that they were on the wrong path and their kids turned out alright. One, though, told me that her son became a major drug user and OD&#8217;d. Another one visits her son upstate on visiting day at a maximum security facility.</p>
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		<title>By: María Luján</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-417</link>
		<dc:creator>María Luján</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 13:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43#comment-417</guid>
		<description>Hi Dad of Cameron
I have some points to discuss about your questions. Are you interested on?
It will include some personal experience therefore I ask.
María Luján</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dad of Cameron<br />
I have some points to discuss about your questions. Are you interested on?<br />
It will include some personal experience therefore I ask.<br />
María Luján</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 02:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43#comment-416</guid>
		<description>It's a sort of placebo effect on expectations.

The studies on Secretin are very telling. As I recall, in one of them close to 70% of parents remained interested in Secretin, even though the study clearly showed that Secretin was, at best, as effective as placebo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a sort of placebo effect on expectations.</p>
<p>The studies on Secretin are very telling. As I recall, in one of them close to 70% of parents remained interested in Secretin, even though the study clearly showed that Secretin was, at best, as effective as placebo.</p>
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		<title>By: Dad Of Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-415</link>
		<dc:creator>Dad Of Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 02:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43#comment-415</guid>
		<description>Hi Lisa. :)

Hi Joseph,

You know, it's definitely not clear why such claims are made, but a few hypotheses come to mind:

A. Such claimants are so far imbedded into the process and cure culture, despite the absence of supporting science, that held beliefs, faith, and hope (however false) are so strong, that they truly "believe" it.

B. Such claimants are so far imbedded into the process and cure culture that to acknowledge a dead end is not an option.

C. Such claimants have no understanding of Post Hoc fallacy or don't understand that autism is characterized by developmental delay, but does not mean developmental stasis (credit "not developmental stasis" to Prometheus).

D. Such claimants are on to something, and will produce scientific proof despite the prevalence of an overwhelming lack of evidence and the likelihood that it is quite improbable.

I'd like to see a study on the psychological etiology of these claims and beliefs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lisa. <img src='http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Hi Joseph,</p>
<p>You know, it&#8217;s definitely not clear why such claims are made, but a few hypotheses come to mind:</p>
<p>A. Such claimants are so far imbedded into the process and cure culture, despite the absence of supporting science, that held beliefs, faith, and hope (however false) are so strong, that they truly &#8220;believe&#8221; it.</p>
<p>B. Such claimants are so far imbedded into the process and cure culture that to acknowledge a dead end is not an option.</p>
<p>C. Such claimants have no understanding of Post Hoc fallacy or don&#8217;t understand that autism is characterized by developmental delay, but does not mean developmental stasis (credit &#8220;not developmental stasis&#8221; to Prometheus).</p>
<p>D. Such claimants are on to something, and will produce scientific proof despite the prevalence of an overwhelming lack of evidence and the likelihood that it is quite improbable.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see a study on the psychological etiology of these claims and beliefs.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-414</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 01:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43#comment-414</guid>
		<description>To get an idea of how effective chelation therapy is, visit GenerationRescue's Testimonials. They have several kids in each age group, no more. If chelation were effective, testimonials would flood that site, and the treatment would become very popular through word of mouth. Also, if you read some of the testimonials, you'll see that almost none are about trully "recovered" kids.  Parents just believe they see improvements that they claim could not have happened without chelation. It's not at all clear why they claim this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To get an idea of how effective chelation therapy is, visit GenerationRescue&#8217;s Testimonials. They have several kids in each age group, no more. If chelation were effective, testimonials would flood that site, and the treatment would become very popular through word of mouth. Also, if you read some of the testimonials, you&#8217;ll see that almost none are about trully &#8220;recovered&#8221; kids.  Parents just believe they see improvements that they claim could not have happened without chelation. It&#8217;s not at all clear why they claim this.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 01:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43#comment-413</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I got the same form letter from Dr. Crow.  So kind of him to give our concerns his serious consideration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I got the same form letter from Dr. Crow.  So kind of him to give our concerns his serious consideration.</p>
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		<title>By: Dad Of Cameron</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-412</link>
		<dc:creator>Dad Of Cameron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 01:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43#comment-412</guid>
		<description>Hi NM,

Yeah, that certainly can't help, but I also think the glaring absence of any real scientific evidence of kids with autism 'cured' by chelation doesn't help either. Granted, not all parents look for scientific evidence before jumping on a treatment bandwagon of likely false hope, but the longer this goes on without real scientific proof (which certainly would have made mainstream media headlines), the more the proponents may have to try to present it as something else to engage new "believers". So it seems kind of a two-pronged problem: guilt by association with "dangerous" and still pseudo-science as an autism treatment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi NM,</p>
<p>Yeah, that certainly can&#8217;t help, but I also think the glaring absence of any real scientific evidence of kids with autism &#8216;cured&#8217; by chelation doesn&#8217;t help either. Granted, not all parents look for scientific evidence before jumping on a treatment bandwagon of likely false hope, but the longer this goes on without real scientific proof (which certainly would have made mainstream media headlines), the more the proponents may have to try to present it as something else to engage new &#8220;believers&#8221;. So it seems kind of a two-pronged problem: guilt by association with &#8220;dangerous&#8221; and still pseudo-science as an autism treatment.</p>
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		<title>By: Not Mercury</title>
		<link>http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-411</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Mercury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 23:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.autismstreet.org/weblog/?p=43#comment-411</guid>
		<description>You don't suppose that whole Hypocalcemia / Cardiac arrest thing has given chelation a bad name, do you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t suppose that whole Hypocalcemia / Cardiac arrest thing has given chelation a bad name, do you?</p>
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